Tucker Carlson's chat with Jeffery Sachs
Discussing the geopolitical dynamics and historical context of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, the Cold War, CIA Coups and COVID's Origin.
Here is a summary of the conversation between Tucker Carlson and Jeffery Sachs[1], discussing the geopolitical dynamics and historical context of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine. The main points covered include:
Provocation Debate
The discussion begins with whether the conflict was unprovoked. Sachs argues that it was not, pointing to historical provocations by the United States and NATO towards Russia. They highlight the frequent labelling of the conflict as "unprovoked" in media, particularly the New York Times, and argue that such a narrative is overly simplistic and ignores the complexities of international relations. The speaker contends that the United States' strategic manoeuvres, including military interventions and support for regime changes in various regions, have contributed to an atmosphere of hostility and suspicion. Both Carlson and Sachs assert that the narrative of an "unprovoked" conflict fails to consider the broader geopolitical chess game that has been ongoing for decades.
Historical Context
The conversation delves into the history of NATO expansion and the strategic objectives of the United States and its allies to encircle Russia, dating back to the Cold War era and even earlier. Sachs refers to the British strategy during the Crimean War, which aimed to limit Russian influence in the Black Sea region. This historical context is used to illustrate the long-standing Western objective of containing Russia. They discuss the strategic writings of figures like Zbigniew Brzezinski, who articulated plans for NATO expansion as a means to maintain Western dominance and prevent Russian resurgence. Brzezinski’s 1997 book, "The Grand Chessboard," is cited as a blueprint for US policy, advocating for the inclusion of Eastern European countries in NATO to encircle Russia and reduce its power on the global stage.
US Foreign Policy
Sachs criticizes US foreign policy, describing it as hegemonic and driven by a desire to maintain global dominance. He argues that this has led to numerous conflicts and destabilization efforts around the world, including in Ukraine. He suggests that US policy has been characterized by an aggressive push to expand influence and control, often disregarding the sovereignty and stability of other nations. This approach, he argues, has resulted in a series of wars and interventions, from the Middle East to Eastern Europe, that have caused widespread destruction and suffering. Sachs also cites other examples such as the Iraq War, the intervention in Libya, and the support for Syrian rebels, suggesting that these actions were driven by a desire to assert dominance rather than genuine humanitarian concerns.
NATO Expansion
The expansion of NATO to include countries bordering Russia is highlighted as a significant factor in the current conflict. Sachs argues that this expansion has been perceived as a threat by Russia, contributing to the tensions. They detail how NATO’s inclusion of former Soviet states and Eastern European countries has brought the military alliance closer to Russia’s borders, which has been a major source of concern for the Russian government. The discussion includes specific instances of NATO enlargement, such as the inclusion of the Baltic states, Poland, and Romania, and the subsequent military build-up in these regions. Sachs asserts that this expansion violates earlier assurances given to Russia that NATO would not move "one inch eastward" after the fall of the Soviet Union, a promise reportedly made to Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev.
Coup in Ukraine
The conversation touches on the 2014 coup in Ukraine, which the Sachs claims was supported by the United States to overthrow a neutral Ukrainian president and replace him with one more aligned with Western interests. He argues that the US played a significant role in fomenting unrest and supporting the opposition forces that led to the ousting of President Viktor Yanukovych. This event is seen as a pivotal moment that escalated the conflict and deepened the divide between Ukraine and Russia. Sachs describes how US officials, including diplomats and senators, openly supported the Maidan protests and provided resources and political backing to the opposition. He also asserts that this intervention was part of a broader strategy to pull Ukraine into the Western sphere of influence, away from Russia.
Diplomacy and Peace
Both Carlson and Sachs advocate for diplomacy and negotiation as the path to peace, criticizing the current US administration for not engaging directly with Russia and for continuing a policy of confrontation. They emphasize the importance of dialogue and compromise to de-escalate the situation and find a peaceful resolution. They suggest that a shift towards diplomacy could help avoid further conflict and reduce the risk of a broader war. Sachs points out that high-level communication between US and Russian leaders has been minimal, and he call for a renewed effort to engage in substantive talks. Sachs also argues that mutual respect and understanding are crucial for resolving the conflict and preventing further escalation.
Broader Implications
The discussion also covers broader implications for global security, including the risks of nuclear war and the need for the US to reconsider its foreign policy approach to avoid further conflicts and instability. Sachs warns that the current trajectory of US foreign policy could lead to catastrophic outcomes, including the possibility of a nuclear confrontation. He expresses concern about the militarization of international relations and the proliferation of advanced weaponry. Sachs calls for a more balanced and cautious approach that prioritizes global stability and cooperative international relations. He also stresses the importance of arms control agreements, non-proliferation efforts, and international cooperation to address common security challenges.
Overall Critique
Overall, the discussion is a detailed critique of US foreign policy, particularly regarding its approach to Russia and Ukraine, and emphasizes the need for a shift towards diplomacy and cooperation to ensure global stability. Sachs argues that the pursuit of hegemonic dominance and military expansion has created a dangerous and unsustainable situation. He advocates for a fundamental rethinking of US strategy to promote peace and security in the international arena. The conversation highlights the complexities and interconnections of global politics, urging policymakers to consider the long-term consequences of their actions and to seek peaceful solutions to conflicts. There are calls for a return to principles of international law, respect for sovereignty, and genuine efforts to build a more stable and cooperative world order.
Additional Points
Media Narrative: Both critique the media's role in perpetuating a simplistic narrative that the conflict is unprovoked, arguing that this narrative overlooks the deeper historical and strategic factors involved.
Economic Interests: There is discussion about the economic motivations behind US actions, including the desire to control resources and maintain economic dominance through military and political means.
European Union’s Role: The conversation touches on the European Union’s position and its alignment with US policy, suggesting that EU countries have been pressured into supporting NATO expansion and US-led initiatives despite their own interests in regional stability.
Domestic Politics: The speakers reflect on how US foreign policy decisions are influenced by domestic political considerations, including the interests of the military-industrial complex and the pressures from various political lobbies.
Comparative Examples: Historical analogies are drawn, comparing the current situation to past conflicts and interventions, to illustrate the recurring patterns in US foreign policy.
During the last third of the two-and-a-half-hour conversation the subject of the origins of COVID-19 was raised and here are the following points:
1. Lab Origin Theory: Sachs argues that COVID-19 almost certainly did not come from nature but from a laboratory. He discussed the presence of a "furin cleavage site" in the virus, which makes it more infectious to humans and is not found in other natural beta coronaviruses.
2. Gain-of-Function Research: Sachs highlights that gain-of-function research, which involves making viruses more infectious, has been ongoing for years. This type of research was funded by various institutions, including the NIH under Dr. Anthony Fauci’s direction.
3. Research Proposal: A specific research proposal called "Diffuse," submitted to the Department of Defense in 2018, is mentioned. This proposal outlined a plan to collect and modify bat coronaviruses to make them more infectious by inserting a furin cleavage site.
4. Laboratory Work: Sachs notes that experiments were likely conducted in both U.S. labs and the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The suggestion is that the virus could have been created in the U.S. and sent to Wuhan for further testing.
5. Cover-Up: Sachs mentions a cover-up involving prominent scientists who initially believed the virus was from a lab but later authored a paper stating it had a natural origin. This paper, "The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2," published in Nature Medicine, is described as fraudulent.
6. Lack of Transparency: Sachs criticizes the lack of transparency and honesty from governments and scientific institutions about the origins of the virus. There is a call for further investigation and the retraction of misleading scientific papers.
7. Ongoing Risk: Both Carlson and Sachs express concern that gain-of-function research continues without adequate oversight, posing a risk of future pandemics. They emphasize the need for clear rules and monitoring to prevent such dangerous research from leading to another outbreak.
In summary, the discussion on the origins of COVID-19 suggests a lab origin involving gain-of-function research, highlights a potential cover-up by scientists, and calls for greater transparency and regulation to prevent future pandemics.
Watch the full interview at CTN on Youtube